Would you consider the book scene a case of rape also? I mean, the show made it way worse, but in the original, Jaime stills kisses Cersei as she urges him to stop
We posted the transcribed scene here.
“Hurry,” she was whispering now, “quickly, quickly, now, do it now, do me now. Jaime Jaime Jaime.” Her hands helped guide him. “Yes,” Cersei said as he thrust, “my brother, sweet brother, yes, like that, yes, I have you, you’re home now, you’re home now, you’re home.” She kissed his ear and stroked his short bristly hair. Jaime lost himself in her flesh. He could feel Cersei’s heart beating in time with his own, and the wetness of blood and seed where they were joined.Cersei initiates the kissing. She says “no, not here, the septons” when Jaime starts kissing her neck, then mentions the wrath of the gods and her father as he’s making space for them to have sex, which is important to note. She protests at first because of the location and because she doesn’t want them to be caught, not because she doesn’t want to have sex with him. If the scene was written as Cersei struggled to push him away, wanted to make him stop kissing her, but couldn’t etc. and hadn’t included her literally telling Jaime to have sex with her, it would have been rape, but that isn’t what happened.Cersei forgets the septons and the location, tells him to hurry, tells him to have sex with her, and even grabs him and guides him to her. She also says "yes" three times and other terms of endearment while they’re having sex. She gives him explicit consent, and it is then and only then that the sex happens. If she’d said no, Jaime—who has clear moral issues with rape due to past trauma—would not have forced Cersei. His thoughts during that scene are also about how much he wants to protect her, not about how hateful she is.In the show, she pulls completely away from the kiss/stops the kiss, which is when Jaime’s personality completely switches and he calls her hateful, then forces her to kiss him. The gods and the septons and our father be damned turns into “how could the gods make me love such a hateful woman.” She says “no” “stop it” continuously while struggling with him to stop. I think there’s a clear difference here.-J
please don’t misconstrue this as me defending the horribly graphic rape scene in the tv show. i find that disgusting and unnecessary.
but when people are trying to paint the scene in the book as perfect consent, they’re completely ignoring the paragraph right before the one quoted where cersei lightly kisses jaime and then he starts kissing her harder and she’s like ‘stop not here not right now no’ and then he picks her up and sets her on the table and she’s pushing on his chest and hitting his chest trying to get him to stop and then when he gets her clothes off is when she finally gives in and accepts that it’s gonna happen so she might as well go along. the scene in the book, if not a rape scene isn’t the glorious consensual sex that everyone is making it out to be.
another thing people are doing which is incredibly disturbing to me is saying that jaime would never rape because jaime was against the violent rapes of brienne and the targaryens. but i don’t really read it as out of character, because in patriarchal societies it can’t be rape if it’s not violent and it can’t be rape if she’s previously consented. jaime can love and want to protect cersei and still completely violate her consent and never think twice about it. the scene in book made me very uncomfortable, and the scene in the show was much more gratuitously violent but they didn’t pull the rape out of nowhere.
I’ve already explained why the show and the books aren’t the same situation. I never said that it was perfect because I don’t for a second feel that any of GRRM’s sex scenes or writing is perfect. Please do not misconstrue me pointing out the consent in the scene in contrast to the show as “gloriously perfect” because that isn’t what I said.
Jaime wouldn’t rape Cersei because he witnessed Robert rape her multiple times, not just because he was opposed to the violence against Rhaella Targaryen and Brienne. Jaime was traumatised by what happened to these women, and what happened to Cersei during her marriage to Robert, especially because he couldn’t do anything to help and none of the kingsguard stepped in to stop these men. Jaime knows about Cersei’s trauma. Jaime punishes rapists in the books. Jaime expresses that if he were a woman, he’d rather die than be raped. There are plenty of instances why doing this to Cersei is out of character for a character like Jaime.
Jaime understands that Aerys Targaryen raped Rhaella Targaryen, no matter if “in patriarchal societies it can’t be rape if it’s not violent and it can’t be rape if she’s previously consented.” Jaime understands that Robert Baratheon raped Cersei Lannister, no matter if “in patriarchal societies it can’t be rape if it’s not violent and it can’t be rape if she’s previously consented.” We also live in a “patriarchal society” and just because some people in our society believe the same, ”it can’t be rape if it’s not violent and it can’t be rape if she’s previously consented” doesn’t mean that other people can’t recognise that it’s bullshit. Jaime recognises that that’s bullshit, just like people in our society recognise that that’s bullshit.
Cersei engages in this relationship with Jaime because it is the only consensual one that she’s had with anyone.
No matter how poorly this scene’s written in the books, the important thing is that Cersei gives Jaime consent. You’re free to argue that it made you uncomfortable, but she gives him consent. In the show she does not.
Let’s just take a second to reread this scene. Can everyone find the word “yes”? Apparently D&D couldn’t.
It took two Kingsguard to pry loose her fingers, so the body of King Joffrey Baratheon could slide limp and lifeless to the floor.
"You have children. How happy would you say you are?"
"Not very. But if it weren’t for my children, I would have thrown myself from the highest tower in the Red Keep. They’re the reason I’m alive"
FANGIRL CHALLENGE || (1/15) Families » The Lannisters
↳ “I’ve lost a hand, a father, a son, a sister, and a lover, and soon enough I will lose a brother. And yet they keep telling me House Lannister won this war.”
davos: i dont have time for you magic tricks
melisandre: illusions davos you dont have time for my ILLUSIONS.
Original work. A map of Westeros from A Game Of Thrones in the style of Google Maps.
I might have to print this…
im just gonna post this one by Joanna Krotka because its p much spoiler free and it conveys the nature of the stark children and their direwolves so accurately